Comments on essay 160

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Forum 160 Х Anarcho-Leninist Debate on State--Comments on Essay 160
Comments on essay 160

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comment on essay 160 Х Monday • 19-Apr-2010 • 1:36 pm Х # 160-9033

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Useful, but maybe a few problems
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х No

Х khusbu Х

comment on essay 160 Х Thursday • 22-Oct-2009 • 10:24 am Х # 160-9032

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Total bullshit
ХХХ relevant? Х not sure
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

Х tKpDGmsgye Х JTwJmFYVj
Х In composing the editorial board, I wanted to represent a variety of sensibilities. ,
Х question: nOgslgcOBu
Х likes: KXgPYtnibCN
Х don't like: ZZqnAPXxWv

comment on essay 160 Х Thursday • 22-Oct-2009 • 10:23 am Х # 160-9031

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Total bullshit
ХХХ relevant? Х not sure
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

comment on essay 160 Х Thursday • 17-Apr-2008 • 2:40 am Х # 160-9030

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Really cool !!
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х No

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comment on essay 160 Х Thursday • 17-Apr-2008 • 2:37 am Х # 160-9028

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Really cool !!
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х No

comment on essay 160 Х Tuesday • 4-Sep-2007 • 3:25 am Х # 160-9027
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Х zxrqo kjqrefg acydsu octihpg qgilkzcm ajulon jgqa
Х question: siwzqeh qdfnxivej
Х likes: siwzqeh qdfnxivej
Х don't like: siwzqeh qdfnxivej

comment on essay 160 Х Tuesday • 6-Jun-2006 • 2:34 pm Х # 160-9026

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Really cool !!
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

Х Х

comment on essay 160 Х Wednesday • 14-Dec-2005 • 9:47 pm Х # 160-9022

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Useful, but maybe a few problems
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

Х Karl Munist Х technocracy?
Х Ben, I haven't read your entire page on resolving the crisis of theory, but one potential problem grabbed my attention. You state: "In any country with a modern economy and communications infrastructure (ie: where the majority of the population has internet connectivity) the systematic struggle for ideas on a mass scale will make it impossible for any exploiting class to suppress information about any political trend. This is something new in the world, a change of enormous significance." You wrote a little earlier about how the bourgeois will face measures to ensure that they don't regain power but will never have their voices stifled. Presumably through persuasion, the proletariat would be able to use the internet and other media to persuade the masses that a return to bourgeois rule will not be desirable. While I think most of your ideas are very sound, I think your theory on information war carries a very big caveat. Consider this sentence: "In any country with a modern economy and communications infrastructure (ie: where the majority of the population has internet connectivity)" If we are to carry the "mass line," then technological access and literacy will have to be a major issue. At times, the comforts of our own culture fail to recognize potential roadblocks that others may face along the way, as you allude to in your opening. The majority of the world's people don't use silverware, and they probably don't use a mouse or keyboard, either. People without access to the internet might only receive the distorted news that the bourgeois feed them, risking the mass support for the revolution and potentially growing a reactionary trend. Even some of the bourgeois currently in control acknowledge the existence of a "digital divide" within the Unit ... read more

comment on essay 160 Х Saturday • 5-Nov-2005 • 7:16 am Х # 160-9021

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Total bullshit

Х Х

comment on essay 160 Х Thursday • 14-Apr-2005 • 6:55 pm Х # 160-9020

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Useful, but maybe a few problems
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х No

Х Angelo Х Marxist Stepping stones
Х I am certainly no leninist, while I do appreciate him for his strength, wit, and ideals I am afraid his theory on how to generate a worker's revolutionary state proved terribly, terribly incorrect. Most of what you say is, in fact, very correct. You do need to elaborate a bit more on the future state, you do little better than anarchists actually. I do find it odd that you did not seem to mention CPUSA, probably the greatest example of ridiculous and shallow communism that I have yet to see. I find it distressing that all the communist organizations and even all liberal ones are caught up in the same bush-bashing, WTO fixation while completely ignoring any local relevancy what so ever. They seem to only take the biggest and most mainstream national issues and ramble on about them for months on end without actually, as you have said, posing any solutions or even paying attention to the plight of the every day worker and poverty stricken individual. I would like to make a suggestion myself, a way in which you do not have to slowly "Eat away", and most likely become stalled eventually,at the capitalist economy. Why not simply put into full and total practice a method of production that is currently being used? Why not transform, a fairly simple process actually, all current corporation slowly or, if need be, quickly into "cooperatives"? This does go along with something you hinted at, but did not really specify. These worker controlled companies would operate basically like a capitalist organization only devoid of exploitation. The banks would be state controlled and charge no interest and all apartment complexes and neighborhoods would also become cooperatives or citizen/city run establishments. This is still far from a money-less state, but wit ... read more
Х question: Cite an actual process that you can explain..i.e."We will do this and this in this way in order to acheive this result"
Х likes: Well stated arguement against the current weak left...dear lord, did you see them at the republican national convention!??! THEY TOOK COUPONS FOR GOD'S SAKES!!!!
Х don't like: Didn't define solid processes, actions, methods..etc..for how the economy would work and how the government would function.

comment on essay 160 Х Friday • 30-Jul-2004 • 10:04 am Х # 160-9019

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Some real serious problems
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

Х CHAZ Х

comment on essay 160 Х Saturday • 1-Nov-2003 • 6:04 am Х # 160-9018

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х other

Х Х

comment on essay 160 Х Monday • 6-Oct-2003 • 8:19 pm Х # 160-9017

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Some real serious problems
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

Х Henry Х Leaves holes for totalitarianism
Х Perhaps I am a pessemist for this, but I would like to point out a basic logic that is lacking: how is it possible to achieve the utopia of a Worker's State while humans demonstrate again and again that being "Bourgeoisie" is human nature? My response is: it's impossible. I do not believe it is within human nature to have such a utopian society based on the simple fact that greed and materialism are central to Everyone in some degree. Therefore, I argue that the Freedom to Pursue your own rights through a "Bourgeoisie" capitalist system will always be the lesser evil based on the perhaps pessimistical premise that humans are Not fundamentally "good at heart". At least a democratic system run with monetary exchanges allows for more freedom than any "Worker State" demonstrated to date, and I believe that will continue to the end of time.

comment on essay 160 Х Tuesday • 29-Apr-2003 • 8:16 am Х # 160-9016

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Really cool !!
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

Х Х

comment on essay 160 Х Thursday • 3-Apr-2003 • 10:56 pm Х # 160-9015

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Really cool !!

Х Х

comment on essay 160 Х Thursday • 30-Jan-2003 • 12:02 pm Х # 160-9014
Х 8thfloor Х The Information War: The other front
Х I believe this debate is spot on the mark and cuts right through to the ongoing problem with modern revolutionary movements.

I just want to offer a specific, narrow and tangential contribution to the debate.

It concerns bseattle's apparent conclusion that "the information war is inevitably winnable" based on these steps of logic:

1. that the internet as we know it and desire it is here to stay
2. that the internet we know or desire will facilitate the information war
... snip ...
n. that the information war will be won.

I will act as the devils advocate and argue that the conclusion of point 1 is premature.

Progressive interests have made good use of the internet as a way of organising information and building support from places that otherwise would be out of reach.

The structure and properties of the internet are as yet, not well understood. Its resilience until now depends much on that fact. It just so happens that the internet has a number of properties that revolutionary organisations find convenient. This means the internet provides a temporary goldmine for revolutionary activity, at least for the near future.

I fear, however, the bourgeoisie still have ample time to experiment with ways with which to control the internet. If you have no form, you cannot be attacked, but the internet is far from having no form. It has a physical form, it has a virtual form.

The physical form is about infrastructure: machines (servers and routers), connections and protocols (the way machines communicate), user agents (the applications used by users such as browsers) - all the things that make it work that we don't really see, or take for granted. ... read more

comment on essay 160 Х Saturday • 18-Jan-2003 • 6:14 pm Х # 160-9006

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Useful, but maybe a few problems
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

comment on essay 160 Х Saturday • 28-Dec-2002 • 4:00 am Х # 160-9005

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Total bullshit
ХХХ relevant? Х No
ХХХ insightful? Х not sure

Х Nestor Makhno Х comments: Stupid, not based on empiric evidence, not gets to heart - in a word, Leninist
Х question: how many people do you think will become Leninst after such ---bleep---? You're actually making a favor to anarchism.
Х likes: Nothing. He's right when he says that every Leninst group is social-democratic and counter-revolutionary.
Х don't like: Everything

• reply • Saturday • 28-Dec-2002 • 10:13 am
by ben • Hi Nestor, Thanks for your comments.
In your post to the question forum (# 103-3009 on Dec 25) you explain what you mean by the heart: "will Leninism really lead to a classless society?". In my reply I asked that you look at my essay # 153: politics, economics and the mass media when the working class runs the show.
However instead of commenting on essay # 153 you appear to be complaining that essay # 160 does not deal with this topic. But essay # 160 deals with a different topic--the concern of activists like yourself that a future workers' state will be a repressive police state.
Also, a note for other readers: In the Questions forum, I suggested to Nestor that we communicate using words that have more-or-less agreed-upon meanings. Words like "Marxism", "Leninism" and "communism" mean hundreds of different things to different people. In fact many activists attach what are essentially religious (either satanic or angelic) meanings to these words. If we don't stick to words with agreed-upon meanings--we waste everyone's time in stupid arguments about the meaning of this or that word. However, Nestor appears to want to spend his time arguing about the meaning of "Leninism". But I am not going to argue back. My time (and the time of other readers to this forum) is too valuable.

Finally, a quick correction: Despite what Nestor claims, I have never said that every "Leninist" group is "social-democratic and counter-revolutionary". Rather, I have said that most were social-democratic and that, to my knowledge, most of the rest were infected with a kind of sectarian religion that I call "cargo cult Leninism". Being infected with a sectarian disease does not necessarily make one a "counter-revolutionary". But carelessly throwing around words like "counter-revolutionary" can make one a sectarian.

comment on essay 160 Х Wednesday • 18-Dec-2002 • 7:22 pm Х # 160-9004

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Total bullshit
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х No

Х Morpheus Х don't like: This is based on a straw man and misses the point of the anti-authoritarian critique of Marxism

comment on essay 160 Х Saturday • 14-Dec-2002 • 1:56 pm Х # 160-9003

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Some real serious problems
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х not sure

Х Yhcrana Х comments: Hi, Ben: Yhcrana here again. I have several thoughts on this essay that I wish to share but, again must submit them in the form of a formal essay. I have spent the last two days writing a response and will be emailing it to you shortly. Cheers!

comment on essay 160 Х Thursday • 12-Dec-2002 • 11:51 pm Х # 160-9002

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Useful, but maybe a few problems
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

comment on essay 160 Х Thursday • 12-Dec-2002 • 1:44 am Х # 160-9001

poll response:
ХХХ bullshit or brilliant? Х Really cool !!
ХХХ relevant? Х Yes
ХХХ insightful? Х Yes

Х Ben Х comments: This is a test to verify that forum # 160 works correctly. And this essay, by the way, is damn good--even for me ...
Х likes: everything
Х don't like: a more comprehensive picture of social-democracy would have been nice--but was beyond my time and ability

all posts for
this forum are
on this page

-- page 900 --

Click the vote button to vote for posts that you consider informed or thoughtful. Posts with the most votes will be put on the best page.

IMPORTANT: You can vote for as many different commentss as you want, but please,
DON'T try to stack the vote by voting multiple times for the same comments.

This microforum has been brought to you
by the principle of
TRANSPARENCY

Interactivity for this site
by the Red Team

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