comment on Part 5
Friday 25-Jul-2008 11:26 am # 115-7520
jmutxplzf isoudmle
jmutxplzf isoudmle
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comment on Part 5
Friday 25-Jul-2008 11:25 am # 115-7519
jmutxplzf isoudmle
jmutxplzf isoudmle
makxd sihuz qhmckywxd sgnjqzf lmqg ftckwvso nzkuacfp
comment on Part 5
Thursday 17-Apr-2008 2:41 am # 115-7518
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poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? Yes--Ben has represented Daniel's views fairly non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? Yes--Ben answered all of Daniel's questions relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? No--heard it all before
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comment on Part 5
Thursday 17-Apr-2008 2:36 am # 115-7517
[]
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HoyleCardGame - hoyle card game http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpeedTheCardGame - speed the card game http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreeSolitaireCardGames - free solitaire card games http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SolitaireCardGameFree - solitaire card game free http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PokemonTradingCardGames - pokemon trading card games http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreeCellCardGame - free cell card game http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CassinoCardGames - cassino card games http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpadeCardGames - spade card games http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OnlineYugiohCardGame - online yugioh card game http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CardGamesOnlinePlay - card games online play
poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? Yes--Ben has represented Daniel's views fairly non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? Yes--Ben answered all of Daniel's questions relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? No--heard it all before
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comment on Part 5
Friday 23-Nov-2007 8:12 pm # 115-7516
zikphowyx wray
zikphowyx wray
jxygkzds xpzje lhpq dzox cshnlfzg xwnhci cubnx
comment on Part 5
Sunday 17-Dec-2006 3:15 am # 115-7515
None
avg anti virus
hello, merry christmas to all
poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? Yes--Ben has represented Daniel's views fairly non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? Yes--Ben answered all of Daniel's questions relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? No--heard it all before
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comment on Part 5
Sunday 17-Dec-2006 1:52 am # 115-7514
None
watertown savings bank
hello, merry christmas to all
poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? Yes--Ben has represented Daniel's views fairly non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? Yes--Ben answered all of Daniel's questions relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? No--heard it all before
|
comment on Part 5
Sunday 17-Dec-2006 1:49 am # 115-7513
None
debtconsolidation
hello, merry christmas to all
poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? Yes--Ben has represented Daniel's views fairly non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? Yes--Ben answered all of Daniel's questions relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? No--heard it all before
|
comment on Part 5
Tuesday 5-Dec-2006 6:20 am # 115-7512
Radagast2072
Te Threat of Bourgeois Counter-Revolution
No alternative to bourgeois rule deserves to be taken seriously if it cannot explain how the working class will stop bourgeois attempts of re-installing thenselves back to power by force of arms. Allede in Chile (1973) did not give a good enough answer to this question and ended up dead along with tens of thousands of workers. What, in your view, would be the way you will suggest for the worker's state to defend itself against coup attempts and far-right insurrections?
comment on Part 5
Tuesday 5-Dec-2006 3:55 am # 115-7511
Radagast2072
Independent Consumer Bodies as a Check on Central Planning
In order to ensure the quality of products made by these industries which, under a worker's state, will be subjected to central planning, it would be nescery to establish independent and democratically-elected consumer bodies. Such bodies, given enough legal powers to enforce their criticism on state-run firms, would ensure that the quality of these firms' products would be sufficient. Without such checks on the system, central planning might fall into problems of quality control, which were very common in ultra-centralized planning modes (i.e. Stalinism in the USSR and similar Stalinist states).
poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? Yes--Ben has represented Daniel's views fairly non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? Yes--Ben answered all of Daniel's questions relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? Yes--interesting and insightful
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comment on Part 5
Monday 4-Dec-2006 8:13 am # 115-7510
Radagast2072
This is one of the best and sharpest polemics I've ever read about the Marxist view of the state!
While a large part of the theoretical material presented in this article already exists in Marxist theory, your formulation of these ideas into a sharp, easy to read and no-nonsense article is priceless. Unlike too many self-titled "Marxists" I know, you think for yourself, you draw your own conclusions, and you don't cling to "mommy's-apron" of "Marxist-sounding" phrasemongering. What you're doing is genuine Marxism - thought (using Marxist methods of analysis) and not dogma. Thumbs up!
While I might not agree with some of your specific points, I admire your clarity and courage.
poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? Yes--Ben has represented Daniel's views fairly non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? Yes--Ben answered all of Daniel's questions relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? Yes--interesting and insightful
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comment on Part 5
Sunday 8-May-2005 11:38 pm # 115-7509
Gary
free labor?
I know that some people today work for free, volunteer. I know that some today do work they LOVE -- musicians, artists, some business owners, computer gurus, other "arts" -- and would work for free.
However the idea that people en masse will voluntarily help do ALL the work that is needed simply because they love it, is somewhat hazy to me, knowing how people "are" or the way they tend to "be". (descriptive of "ways of being" rather than "states of nature").
Now I'm in AA so I KNOW that volunteerism can be a gift unto itself, and to varying degrees people respond. Even in AA, talking about "helping, volunteering" is more widespread than actually doing it. Offering phone numbers and rides to newbies is more widespread than actually giving rides. The 20-80 rule applies. But since the whole thing is volunteerism period, and it's still running, volunteerism CAN work.
I might guess that since corporate propaganda has been successful in convincing people that HYSTERICAL CONSUMERISM is not only the highest personal good but the highest societal good, and INSANE WORKAHOLISM can produce satisfaction, then surely some reverse "true" propaganda -- that working voluntarily for the highest collective good (and perhaps honors) is the COOLEST thing one can do --- then that might lead to a situation where people actually show up for work and do what needs to be done --- even the gross and boring stuff.
Parenti likened latter-day USSR to what I would describe as not "a giant corporation" but rather "a giant union shop" lacking discipline, rife in corruption, where most people worked the least possible, and bribed and scammed their way out of more. Hence, shortages.
I'm as pro-Marxist as Parenti and Ben. I agree with the question: HOW?
poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? not sure non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? not sure relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? Yes--interesting and insightful
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comment on Part 5
Tuesday 17-Jun-2003 7:23 pm # 115-7508
Joe R. Golowka
It is not true that the overwhelming majority of all anarchists are infected with the "Scarlet O'Hara syndrome." Anarchists have written many books over the past 150 years describing how an anarchist society could look like. "Conquest of Bread" by Peter Kropotkin is one of my favorites. For a description of what an anarchist society would look like I refer Ben to Section I of "an anarchist FAQ" at http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secIcon.html If you were to ask your questions about what an anarchist society would look like on the anarchist message boards at http://flag.blackened.net the "Scarlet O'Hara Syndrome" would not be the overwhelming response.
With regard to the economy, each workplace is run by it's own worker assembly which meets regularly and makes all major decisions about the workplace. Everyone has an equal say in those decisions, which are made using either consensus or direct democracy (or some mixture of the two). Assemblies divvy up the tasks and plan what they are going to do. Historically they have also elected a factory committee that takes care of administration and coordination. The factory committees simply implement policy decided by the assembly where decision-making power stayed.
Coordination of the economy can be done through a system of horizontal networks or worker councils. The tradition way of doing this is for each assembly to assign a contact person(s) (sometimes called a spoke or delegate) to meet with other contact people from other assemblies which they want to coordinate things with. Position of contact person should rotate frequently. Each contact person is mandated, meaning that they are instructed by the assembly that they come from on how to deal with any issue. The contact people would be given binding instruc ... read more
comment on Part 5
Tuesday 28-Jan-2003 9:24 am # 115-7507
Scott
What "Crisis of Theory" ?
Ben, you have said the following in part five of the Anarchist Leninist debate:
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"What I assert is that even in the most general terms, the
progressive movement has not come up with any alternative at all
that is suitable in any way, shape or form for anyone who has not
received a lobotomy."
"This is why all activists who are serious about a fundamental
change to the status quo--need to also be serious about
overcoming the crisis of theory."
"Eventually the progressive movement will mobilize the majority
of humanity for the purpose of overthrowing the rule of the rich.
This mobilization will only take place once the progressive
movement works out at least an outline of the principles that
will guide an alternative to bourgeois rule that is suitable for
people who are adults and who have not had a lobotomy--an
alternative that actually makes sense--that does not insult the
intelligence of activists and workers alike."
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What you are saying is not true. DeLeonist have put forth a
practical program for socialism. True, it has been largely
ignored for the past 90 years, but we have put it forth and continue
to do so. This program, called Socialist Industrial Unionism, is a method for putting the means of production under democratic control. This is the germ of the idea in DeLeon΄s words:
"Industrial Unionism is the socialist republic in the making; and, the goal once reached, the
Industrial Union is the socialist republic in operation.
Accordingly, the Industrial Union is at once the battering ram
with which to pound down the fortress of capitalism, and the successor of the capitalist social structure itself."
source:
INDUSTRIAL UNIONISM (The Daily People Jan. 20, 1913)
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Our proposal is to create
... read more
comment on Part 5
Thursday 16-Jan-2003 12:59 pm # 115-7506
revolutionary
What nonsense
Ben doesn't know what he is talking about.
poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? No--Ben has distorted Daniel's views non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? No--Ben evaded some of Daniel's questions relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? No--heard it all before
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reply
Friday 17-Jan-2003 6:47 pm
by ben
Hi there comrade revolutionary. First, thanks for your comments and ratings. I believe that comments (even short comments such as yours) and ratings help to demonstrate that this site is alive. I hope that many other comments follow. I also hope that activists such as yourself will find the time to present a more concrete and detailed explanation of what they consider the weak points of my arguments. I believe that my arguments are strong and are based on a solid foundation. But weaknesses may exist all the same and I hope that critics and political opponents, by criticising the weak points--can help me to make my arguments stronger. And yes, those of you who like my arguments (or parts of my essays) please contribute your thoughts also. Calm discussion and debate will help the revolutionary movement once again become powerful and deserving of the trust and attention of the working class and oppressed. So bring it on!
comment on Part 5
Saturday 11-Jan-2003 6:42 pm # 115-7505
Yhcrana
Hi, Ben:
I have had a look at your recent reply to Daniel (though I still have to review it a little more) and have several thoughts on some of the points you have raised, particularly about the need for a clear out viable alternative to bourgeois rule. However, most of my thoughts are based upon the points which I made in Essay #161. Though it will certainly be necessary for me to expand on those points in order to answer the questions which you pose in your response to Daniel, I believe it would prove useful for me to wait for you to respond to my last essay before doing so. The reason I say this is that your response to my essay will provide a necessary segway into my thoughts on Part 5. I realize that you are somewhat strapped for time so, by all means, take as much as you need. However, I feel that a response to my last essay will make my comments on Part 5 seem much less out of context.
Sincerely,
Yhcrana
comment on Part 5
Saturday 4-Jan-2003 10:05 am # 115-7504
Ben
Cool! This debate installment rocks! Let's look at our future tasks in a realistic way
This is a test to verify that forum #115 works the way it should.
poll response:
polemical decency
Has Ben exercized great care
to fairly characterize Daniel's positions
and arguments? Yes--Ben has represented Daniel's views fairly non-evasive
Has Ben answered all questions that Daniel has asked? Yes--Ben answered all of Daniel's questions relevant
Are the points that Ben raises relevant to the debate question? Yes--Ben's points are relevant to the debate question insightful
Has Ben raised new, interesting, thoughtful or insightful points? Yes--interesting and insightful
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